John McCain: I am concerned about
our ability to train our men and women to engage in combat. And also as a
former member of the military, I know the importance of being able to train
with the use of live ordnance. And I note with some interest, Ms. Clark,
your rest of the story stuff here. Somebody's got to get these reconciled.
We've got to get some objective person in here, or entity, because they
differ wildly. But one that I don't think there's a lot of difference of
concerns the Barry Goldwater Range. The DOD assertion is that [in] calendar
year 2000, almost 40% of the live fire missions at the [range] were
canceled, and the rest of the story is that we have 99 Sonoran pronghorns
in the U.S. You can't run a military efficiently, Ms. Clark, by canceling
40% of the training that's being conducted. You cannot do that. Now, we're
faced here with a choice between the pronghorn -- Sonoron pronghorn, and
conducting a realistic training for our men and women who as we speak are
in harm's way. Is that our choice here?
Jamie Rappaport Clark [A senior
vice president at the National Wildlife Federation and former head of the
Fish & Wildlife Service in the Clinton administration]: No, Sen.
McCain...
Sen. McCain: What are our
choices?
Ms. Clark: It is not and it should
not. But again, the facts of this case need to be evaluated. I'm painfully
aware of the role that [the range] plays in sustainability of the Sonoran
pronghorn antelope population, but again...
Sen. McCain: Are you aware of the
importance of the Barry Goldwater Ranges in maintaining the readiness of
our military?
Ms. Clark: Yes, sir, I am, but
again, the proposal by [Defense] doesn't address the conflict of Barry
Goldwater at all, because there is no critical habitat designated for the
Sonoran pronghorn. And the Defense proposal is talking about exempting
critical habitat. I believe there is a lot of work that needs to be done
and conflicts to be worked out...
Sen. McCain: Do you think there's a
lot of work to be done so that 40% of the training missions don't have to
be canceled as we speak?
Ms. Clark: Yes, I do.
Sen. McCain: Then what is your
answer to getting this issue resolved, Ms. Clark?
Ms. Clark: Well, we need to set
aside what the discussion is today, because today's proposal doesn't
accomplish anything to help the [range] achieve military readiness. I do
believe it's going to require that the military at Barry Goldwater and the
[Arizona] Fish and Wildlife Services have been working together on a very
significantly comprehensive Sonoran conservation strategy to try to take
pressure off the [range] and to radiate out the species conservation needs
and the conservation strategy for that part of Arizona beyond the military
borders. And I believe support of that initiative, with high-level
expectations of forward movement, would be very well warranted.
Sen. McCain: When would we expect
this agreement to be reached, Ms. Clark?
Ms. Clark: I think that's something
you'll have to address to the military and the secretary of the interior,
Senator. I would gladly work to see that move forward.
Mr. McCain: Since the year 2000,
they haven't been able to reach any high-level agreement, and 40% of our
training missions are being canceled. That's not acceptable.
Ms. Clark: I agree.
Sen. McCain: Well, then I hope that
you would withdraw objections, which are then lodged by your organization,
which then would prevent these training missions from being conducted. Are
you ready to do that?
Ms. Clark: I am ready on behalf of
my organization to work on a common sense solution that ensures that the
Sonoran pronghorn don't go extinct while trying to radiate pressure away
from the military installation, Senator.
Sen. McCain: So we've pretty well
established your priorities, Ms. Clark.
