June 19, 2004

Poignancy

     A reader posted the following letter as a comment ... LCDR Unger is from the America I know, love, and will fight to maintain.  I'm not kidding. 

One of the old troopers who came was a 52 year-old Sgt. who had already done his 20+ years and had retired. But his son was in the 39th, and when the father found out they were coming over here, he re-enlisted. On their first week in country, Camp Cooke was attacked by rockets and the first rocket that landed killed the father. I was born in 1958 and came of age when the Vietnam War and the anti-war movement were both in full swing. It has taken me years to put this into words, but I believe that as bad as that war was, the legacy of the anti-war movement was worse. The anti-war movement gave rise to the moral superiority of non-involvement and non-commitment.

30 May 2004

Dear Friends,

     This is my third letter from Iraq. I have been working myself into the right mood to do this. Today is the day. In my last two letters I have leaned toward being as upbeat as possible. This time will be different; today I want to talk about Memorial Day, but I will start off by giving my perspective on the Abu Ghraib prison problem.

     First off, the investigation into the abuses at Abu Ghraib began back in January. That is why the first court martial was ready for trial in May. The senior people here knew about the investigation; the rest of us didn't. By the time the media "broke" the story, the investigation was almost done and the soldiers who had committed the abuses had already been rotated home.

    Second, I (we) don't see all the news coverage that you in the states see. I do see some Fox News and CNN. Fox editorializes toward the right wing; CNN is the voice of the anti-war movement. I wonder that if CNN had been around in 1942 we might all be speaking German and Japanese. I can tell you this, everything I have heard on CNN is so biased, negative, and out-of-touch that I will never watch CNN for the rest of my life. That being said, when the rest of us found out about the abuses we were shocked and sickened. I think maybe more so than people back home because we are here; these are the people I see every day.

This statue was made by an Iraqi artist named Kalat, who for years was forced by Saddam Hussein to make the many hundreds of bronze busts of Saddam that dotted Baghdad. This artist was so grateful that the Americans liberated his country, he melted 3 of the fallen Saddam heads and made a memorial statue dedicated to the American soldiers and their fallen comrades. Kalat worked on this night and day for several months. To the left of the kneeling soldier is a small Iraqi girl giving the soldier comfort as he mourns the loss of his comrade in arms. It is currently on display outside the palace that is now home to the 4th Infantry division. It will eventually be shipped and shown at the memorial museum in Fort Hood, Texas.
    The people I see every day who are going out to fix: schools, hospitals, reservoirs, power plants, and sewer systems. They do these things risking sniper fire and hidden explosives. These soldiers are not a handful of bad apples like those at Abu Ghraib, these soldiers number into the thousands. Now think for a second, how much have you seen about that on the news? I believe Abu Ghraib should have been reported, but when I see the fixation of the media on the actions of a few, when the courage shown in reconstruction and the restraint shown in combat by thousands of our people is never shown, I believe this is inexcusable. For the real story of what our people are doing here, go to w.cjtf7.com/index.htm. Click on Coalition News and then Humanitarian Efforts.

Third, what happened on that cell block of Abu Ghraib is what happens when leadership is not out walking around. That is true in the military or in college dorms. I haven't seen it reported in the news, but other soldiers turned in the soldiers who did this. If the dirt bags that committed those abuses had been turned loose among the troops here it would've been ugly. I haven't heard any comments about them coming from soldiers that didn't express a hope that they would get the maximum punishment. A few leaders need to get demoted too.

    As per the "outrage", if you were "outraged" by this, good. I was. However, I would like to ask Arab governments and our own media elites, "Were you just as outraged by what happened under Saddam? If so, you didn't show it."


    Here is what people need to understand: the interrogation of prisoners of war is a little tougher than what the typical thug gets by the local police. I went to Survival, Evasion, Rescue, and Escape (SERE) School back in 1995. I am more proud of completing that course than anything I have ever done. Also, I would never do it again. After playing hide and seek with "bad guys" in California in March, we all got caught, knocked around, froze, went hungry, sleep deprived, threatened with worse, and then interrogated. Here's the deal: when interrogation is done correctly, people don't break so much as they leak. (The purpose of SERE is to teach you how not to leak. That is the classified part of the school.) The interrogator wants them to leak in a way so that the prisoner doesn't even know he is leaking. When someone breaks, as opposed to leaking, they usually give out a data dump of gibberish and then physiologically shuts down. A good interrogator avoids that. If you hurt them or scare them too badly, they quit leaking. Interrogators ask the same question about ten times, ten different ways. Disoriented people leak and they don't even know it.

     What most Americans think of when they think of POWs being interrogated is what they remember of our pilots in North Vietnam. The abuse our people went through in Vietnam wasn't to get intelligence; it was to exploit them for propaganda purposes. I mention this to put the term "abuse" in context. When a terrorist here in Iraq or jaywalkers back in the states report jailhouse "abuse," what does it mean? When we catch a guy red-handed restocking his weapons stock and question him, withholding his TV privileges isn't enough. He won't be happy, but neither will he be destroyed or scared for life. He will tell his buddies, "I didn't tell them anything." In fact he will have told us a lot.

     As I said, I had to work myself into a mindset to talk about this. To work around horror without out letting the horror seep into your soul is a spiritual battle. This week I worked with a National Guard soldier who had to clean up after a convoy of civilian aid workers were killed when an Improvised Explosive Device (IED) went off on the road into Baghdad. He is a carpenter in civilian life, but this week he was out on a highway picking up arms and legs while watching out for snipers. He was cleaning up after monsters. Some other young Americans were put in charge of guarding monsters and then became monsters.

     Care of the soul is serious business. That is part of the reason why I became a Navy Chaplain. The other reason is the people. The folks I have known in the military are more interesting to be around than anybody else I know. This leads me to Memorial Day. Earlier this month I went to Camp Cooke at Taji. (To lend perspective, Taji is really north Baghdad; I am in west Baghdad.) The 39th Brigade (Arkansas National Guard) is stationed there. I didn't know any of them, but I wanted to see my home-state Guard here in Iraq. So I badgered my way into flying up there for two days. They are stationed in the old

Iraqi army air defense school. Unlike downtowhdan Bagd, the old air defense school was turned into rubble. It is getting better, but it was like living in a junkyard. Their first month in Iraq was tough. These soldiers patrol the roughest part of Baghdad. While I was there, the Chaplain of the 39th told me this story: One of the old troopers who came was a 52 year-old Sgt. who had already done his 20+ years and had retired. But his son was in the 39th, and when the father found out they were coming over here, he re-enlisted. On their first week in country, Camp Cooke was attacked by rockets and the first rocket that landed killed the father. I was born in 1958 and came of age when the Vietnam War and the anti-war movement were both in full swing. It has taken me years to put this into words, but I believe that as bad as that war was, the legacy of the anti-war movement was worse. The anti-war movement gave rise to the moral superiority of non-involvement and non-commitment.

     While that may have worked to help draft-dodgers sleep at night, it's not much of a strategy of how to go through life. Taken to its logical conclusion the message is: don't commit to your county, don't commit to your spouse, and don't commit to your kids, church, or community. Don't commit to cleaning up your own mess or any cause that demands any more from you than rhetoric. This was the mindset in which our country was firmly stuck. Until 9/11, some woke up. Kids came down and joined the service. To the dismay of some of their teachers, parents, and the media elites, they came down here and raised their hand in front of the flag. And they are still coming to the shock of the non-committers. The Marines have more enlisting than their two boot camps can handle. And we are all here together for Memorial Day 2004. Old National Guardsmen, grandfathers, and single moms, Texans and Mexicans, Surfers and Rednecks. A few weeks ago an Illinois National Guardsman, mother of three, was hit six times, saved by her body armor, but lost part of her nose. She stayed on her 50 caliber, firing on the bad guys, protecting the convoy. She said she was thinking of her kids and the guys she was with. Commitment is love acted out. It is sad that the non-committers missed that. They and their moral high-ground haven't been near a mass grave. The kids I see and eat with every day still want to help this country, in spite of getting shot at while doing it That is love acted out. You either get it, or you don't.

     During my time in Iraq I won't be able to see any of the Biblical sites that are here. But a few weeks ago in Taji I got to stand on some holy ground, where a father died when he went to war just to be with his son.

Sincerely yours,
Steven P. Unger
LCDR, CHC, USN
Multi National Corps-Iraq

Rodger Schultz June 19, 2004 12:45 PM |
Comments: Poignancy

God bless Steve Unger!

God bless our true heros in the US military!

God bless the United States of America!

Rodge, if I may speak for all of us, please tell Steve and all the brave folks he's with, that we are forever in debt for his sacrifice.

Posted by MoFiZiX Gr4FiX at June 19, 2004 01:18 PM

My son had the same comments about SERE school, and he and his buddies have much the same feelings about their time in Iraq and the continuing efforts there as Chaplain Unger so eloquently states.

Chaplain Unger wrote "The anti-war movement gave rise to the moral superiority of non-involvement and non-commitment... don't commit to your county, don't commit to your spouse, and don't commit to your kids, church, or community. Don't commit to cleaning up your own mess or any cause that demands any more from you than rhetoric." and most importantly he said "Commitment is love acted out."

IMHO he nailed the fundamental difference between the liberals and the rest of us in America; those who look for someone else to blame while yelling about injustice, who look for someone else to carry the load and the easy way out, and those who quietly accept responsiblity for their choices and actions, and are willing to work, sacrifice, postpone gratification, all for the love of family and country.

That's a powerful letter from Chaplain Unger, and I sorely wish it would be read aloud by the President on a national telecast, that it awould appear on the front page of every newspaper, that the chaplain would go on all the TV talk shows, that it's content would become a part of the national conversation.

But I don't think our president and his staff have the flair for this sort of thing. The times and this kind of opportunity beg for a Teddy Roosevelt in the bully pulpit, someone to take the bull by the horns and shake the hell out of a populace numbed by the negative miasma of biased news. Because of the lack of this skill, I feel like the good guys chances of prevailing in this war and the upcoming elections are like watching dirty bath water slowly swirling down a partially stopped drain; it will take a while, but you know how it's going to end and it's not pretty. Chaplain Unger's message is our cleansing blast of clean water, but who is going to turn it on?

PS: many thanks and Godspeed to Chaplain Unger and his flock.

Posted by dick at June 19, 2004 02:00 PM

The fact that more people will not read this because of the traitorous press dismays me. God have mercy on the souls of these media parasites if I ever get one alone.

Posted by StarBanker at June 19, 2004 02:48 PM

Regarding the memorial statue in the picture, here's the whole story, told to me by the guys who had the statues made:

The artist was indeed forced to work for Saddam Hussein, and hated everything about the regime. He was known as gifted, and was forced to sculpt the pair of bronze statues that stood on top of "the Horse Gate" of the Tikrit Palace (FOB Ironhorse, under the 4th Infantry Division).

When the 4ID was looking for an artist to sculpt their memorial, the artists name came up. He initially refused, because he also hated the Americans and what he saw as our "occupation". Eventually, he agreed, setting a price he thought was too high, then pointing out that he had no bronze to work with.

The 4ID had blasted the pair of horse-mounted Hussein statues from their bases, and offered to let the artist use the scrap bronze. He accepted, and worked for many weeks in the upstairs of his home, so he wouldn't be noticed by other locals who were hostile to the Americans. He designed the statue, using actual equipment loaned to him, except for the M16.

At some point, it was realized that the memorial needed something more, to represent the future that our soldiers fought and died for. So, the little girl was added to the design. The artist by now had realized what the Americans could pay, and the price for the little girl was nearly twice what the rest of the memorial cost.

In the end, despite his dislike for the Americans, he did a fabulous job of the memorial, and it sat in the main entry of the government Palace on the Tikrit Palace grounds until 4ID went home.

I was fortunate to see it then, as I worked in the Palace every day. It is beautiful and serene and sad. The grief on the soldier's face, the hope in the child's eyes...remarkable work.

Some day, I hope to visit it at it's new home in Texas.

C

Posted by CS at June 19, 2004 10:55 PM

Makes me want to smash a Commie peacenik in the face... but then again, I always feel like that.

This makes me want to do that RIGHT FUCKING NOW.

Posted by Kim du Toit at June 21, 2004 12:58 AM

The Dallas Morning News, of all things had a great editorial on the lack of positive news about our troops.

What's Wrong With This Picture?
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/opinion/columnists/rdreher/stories/060104dnediiraqphoto.5094d.html

It's the only one to be found on the news wires, that's what!

Posted by Random Numbers at June 21, 2004 09:42 AM

Random - The DMN has been way better than most of big media on this and other issues for some time. Must be something in the air we breathe down here.

Posted by Oscar at June 21, 2004 11:09 AM

Until I see proof that this "Steven P. Unger" exists - a photograph of his Military ID, for instance - this "Letter from Iraq" is just a bunch of right-wing bullshit, meant to skew the truth.

We are losing an illegal war; BushCo has alienated virtually all of our historical allies, save the UK; no WMDs; lies from everyone in the Bush Administration, all the way to the top; *that* is the truth, people.

I, for one, have lost all respect for Colin Powell; once a man with an unlimited political future, now a broken "homeboy." Why in God's name did a highly-respected black man ever become a Republican, after all the things that the GOP *never* did for blacks, I'll never know. Go ahead with your neocon love-fest; I'm outta here.

Jerks and morons on the right...go listen to Rush the Hypocrite (let's all forget his anti-drug-user rants, OK?)

Posted by Jackson Green at June 21, 2004 05:30 PM

Yup, a war so illegal that Bill Clinton and John Kerry supported it, with backup from Teddy Kennedy, Howard dean, and the United Nations, allies so alienated that they're sending troops as we speak, binary shells and uranium centrifuges found, and tremendous quantities of stone-cold TRVTH.

Meanwhile, black people who stray off the Looney Leftwing reservation and get uppity by joining the Right somehow instantly transform from proud and noble spirits to cringing Uncle Toms, just because they can't see the point in condescending lefties out to make them perpetual victims as a lever to political power.
The Right has served blacks by offering to hire them and offering to sell them guns. I think that should be enough for anyone.

..and no, troll..taking painkillers for a bad back is really nothing like smoking the rent money.

Thou hast been Clued! Begone, foul creature!

dave

Posted by dave fitz at June 21, 2004 10:37 PM

Great letter. Lt. Cmdr Unger has nailed it, the best the US has to offer are sacrificing to make the world a better place. Baathist Iraq was supporting terrorists, had WMDs and the ability to make more, and was a threat to its neighbors. President Bush was wise to smash the threat before it got out of hand.

Jackson Green's spew underscores how pathetic socialists are. They have no concept of how the world really works and what good is being done by the Coalition that we are leading. We true Americans must work hard to ensure they never take over again.

Posted by Schmat at June 21, 2004 10:50 PM

Mr. Green,

Had you done one minute's worth of searching on Google you would have found this excerpt from the good chaplain's hometown paper:

EDITOR’S NOTE: This letter is from Navy Chaplain Steve Unger, who is serving in Iraq. Steve is the husband of Lynette Madden Unger who is a graduate of UMHB (1988) and a former teacher in Belton ISD.

URL: http://www.beltonjournal.com/061004/news/fp02.htm

It is plain to see, however, that you are far too busy making a complete ass out of yourself to bother with even the simplest of fact checking.

That being said, Mr. Green, it would be be advisable for you to refrain from commenting in the future, lest others notice that you would be out of you depth in parking lot puddle.

Posted by suboptimal at June 21, 2004 11:26 PM

Good one Sub....

For all you troll's out there that don't have the guts to serve a few years in the service of the country that you so quickly demigrate, STFU!

"We are losing an illegal war"

Hmmm, I don't think so. Soldiers die, that is the price of war. 800+ in a year of action, not too shabby if you ask anyone who knows anything about warfare.

"BushCo has alienated virtually all of our 'historical allies', save the UK;"

Historically speaking we've never had many allies, with the exception of the UK and Austrailia. All the others have been friends of convenience.

So we've offended France? Oh no, what ever will we do? Are we cut off from our supply Cambert Cheese and Whine? What no more free entrance to the Louvre? Americans get treated rudely in the streets of Paris? Oh wait, nothing new there... Fuck them, I can live without friends like that.

Russia doesn't like the invasion? Too fucking bad. They're still pissed that their horrendous little experiment into spreading communism was derailed by us.

China and it's brutal little stalinist toadie, N. Korea, do not find a war against a regime of brutal, facist oppressors to their liking?
C'est la vie. They must really be sweating when they see an aggressive Republic. The little people having a voice is a scary thought for them.

Germany is upset that we cut off their supply of cash from Iraq? Piss on their servile socialist asses. I consider it part of the debt they incurred when we rebuilt their country and kept it safe from their Soviet neighbors.

"no WMDs"

Who fucking cares? The CIA didn't even need to talk about that. Bad info happens sometimes.

"lies from everyone in the Bush Administration, all the way to the top"

Show me a poli that doesn't lie, and I'll call you a liar.

And to paraphrase, "and *that* is the truth, people."

Posted by trackersmurf at June 22, 2004 12:27 AM

As for my having served in the US Military, I proudly served nine years during 'Nam...you assholes remember that one, don't you? And I'm extremely proud of a man who led my fellow soldiers then; then came home to fight against that cluster-fuck; a man who shed his blood doing what he thought was right, until he had had enough. And don't you fucking *DARE* insult me or any other Purple Heart by claimin his injuries - any one of them! - were insufficient to warrant the medal. To shed one's blood at the hands of the enemy; that is the *LAW* behind the Purple Heart, and any of you who is asshole enough to claim otherwise has clearly never served.

"...allies so alienated that they're sending troops as we speak..." What a load of crap! France, Germany, Russia...name me another *real* army, one that's sending troops. Can't fucking do it, can you?

As for showing off a politician who doesn't lie; just remember Shrub's promise to bring integrity "back into the White House." If he had any integrity, he'd be explaining why he took us to war with no justification; and Saddam's past use of WMDs is not proof of what would have been current use.

Based on all ShrubCo's "justifications," we should have bombed the crap out of Peru immediately after the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor in '41!

Mindless fucks

Posted by Jackson Green at June 22, 2004 05:54 PM

Pres. Clinton said that Iraq was the primary threat to world peace and that they had weapons of mass destruction as late as OCT 99. Sen. Kerry echoed his sentiments.A premptive war was okay when the Dems did it in Kosovo. When security personnell at bostons logan airport wrote Sen. Kerry directly about security problems there he passed it off without much ado. Kofi anan was more interested in lining his pocket than anything else, along with the french and germans. CBS did that softball interveiw with Saddam on the eve of the War they ignored any hard questions and basically put out his propaganda, they excused themselves saying that they were saving lives of Iraqi's that had given them info. The investigation at ahbu gharib was initiated by the army who asked them to not print the photo's because of their inflamitory nature. events proved this veiw. If they were willing to alter a story to save Iraqi lives, why not hold back on the photo's to save american lives? The apache Helicopter technician Johnson was beheaded because his company also sold helicopters to Israel. The left keeps telling us that if we would only dump Israel things would be okay. To be honest I did not know that Nigeria supported Israel. Is that why Moslem villagers in Nigeria attacked their Christian neighbors? Killing 400some. Is that why they rioted during the miss universe pageant killing 600? The rvolutionary united front in Sierra Leone is predominantly moslem. so are the rebels in Liberia next door.The Islamic government of Sudan has massacred over a million of their own citizens in the Darfur region of Sudan. This after supplanting us as the chair of the United Nations Human Rights comission. We see the beheading of American and other tourists by the Moro's of the southern Phillipines. We see Islamic insurgents attacking their Infidel neighbors in thailand, malaya, indonesia, Kashmir, chechnya, samolia, Pakistan, afghanistan, Saudi arabia, Iraq, Egypt, Kenya, Rwanda, Kosovo, Bosnia, slovenia, tajkistan, and kygristan. I might have missed a couple. They hate us, Not because we support Israel. They hate Israel because their society and Economy are like ours. They ran from the Israeli's because they expected from them what they would have done to the israel's if they (the arabs)had won.

Posted by steven k bowers at June 22, 2004 06:33 PM

Don't think we're losing the war? Fuck...have you bothered to watch the news lately? Shit...Mission Accomplished,my ass! That was over a year ago. Damned good thing we didn't declare the same feat on D-Day, huh? At least in WWII we had a pretty good idea of what we were there for.

Speaking of Whine...go do it someplace else; 'cause when we're done alienating Europe, we're gonna be so fucking vulnerable your goddamned head will spin!

And if you truly believe *we* had anything to do with derailing communism, you better have a look at those billions of Chinese Communists...believe me, they're not afraid of us! And how about Castro? Damned good thing we've ended his little regime...wait...my bad...he's still fucking alive!

Yup...piss on the Germans; it was they who kept the USSR in check, with their military on constant alert, patrolling the forests and all.

Guess who builds the best all-around fighter jet in the world? I'm talking about the Tornado. Yeah, we have air superiority fighters, but when it comes to multi-purpose, nothing in our arsenal comes close. We used to have that edge...

No WMDs...who cares? Who fucking cares? Goddamned asshole that you are, don't you remember that *THAT* was Shrub's *primary* reason for attacking Iraq?! The WTC attack was used as a "straw that broke the camel's back" piece of shit.

And neither one was accurate! There are no WMDs...and no Iraq/Qaeda link. With that kind of justification, we should have attacked Peru, for God's sake, immediately after Pearl Harbor!

Bad info happens, my ass!

I'll be happy when *we* have a regime change in November (OK; January) I respect a man who didn't go AWOL; a man who served his country in Nam, like I did; a man who thrice received the Purple Heart - and any of you assholes who says his wounds weren't sever enough can go fuck yourselves for insulting me and my fellow PHs. The law plainly states "...for shedding blood at the hands of the enemy..." - I don't give a rat's ass if it's a fingernail snapped and bleeding by a piece of shrapnel, or multiple limbs lost to a fucking Claymore; blood is blood, and if you weren't there *YOU* STFU! I especially have respect for a man who, after witnessing the atrocities of that "Police Action" came home and protested against it. You can count me among his fellows! I served my time...nine years' worth!

Posted by Jackson Green at June 22, 2004 07:20 PM

"Don't think we're losing the war?" said Jackson, doing his level best to make sure we lose it.

"Until I see proof that this "Steven P. Unger" exists - a photograph of his Military ID, for instance - this "Letter from Iraq" is just a bunch of right-wing bullshit, meant to skew the truth." Did this comment slip your mind, or do you have a rather selective grasp on reality?

Posted by Mike Homiller at June 22, 2004 11:59 PM

"Don't think we're losing the war?" said Jackson, doing his level best to make sure we lose it.

"Until I see proof that this "Steven P. Unger" exists - a photograph of his Military ID, for instance - this "Letter from Iraq" is just a bunch of right-wing bullshit, meant to skew the truth." Did this comment slip your mind, or do you have a rather selective grasp on reality?

Posted by Mike Homiller at June 23, 2004 12:00 AM

Mr. Green,

Public Law 104-106 which governs the eligibility requirements for the purple heart does not mention the word "blood" once. Nor does AR 600-8-22. For more info, you may start here: http://www.purpleheart.org/explanation.htm I could not find the exact Navy wording, but the paraphrasing I came across did mention "blood" either. To which law, Mr. Green, do you refer?

"Mission Accomplished" was in reference to mission of the aircraft carrier Abraham Lincoln. The sign was suggested by the Navy, and the white house had it made for the trip. http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/10/28/mission.accomplished/ Do note that link is CNN, so set your bias filters accordingly.

And of course, I'm sure that the one binary Sarin shell and one mustard gas shell existed all on thier lonesome. Truly, there couldn't be any more than one of each of those types of rounds in the entire country of Iraq, now could there? No links necessary, simple logic tells us that the weapons found so far had to come from somewhere, they did not spontaneously spring into existence on thier own.

Also, it has been clear for at least a year from recovered documents that there most definately were ties between Iraq and Al-Qeda. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2003/04/27/walq27.xml&sSheet=/portal/2003/04/27/ixportaltop.html

And those links keep getting clearer.http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=615&e=3&u=/nm/20040620/pl_nm/iraq_intelligence_dc

Finally, to the defeat of the Soviet Union in the cold war. Do you honestly believe that the _Germans_ were the reason the Soviets didn't roll through western Europe? You don't think the idea of rolling the tanks would end up turning the planet into a radioactive cinder had something to do with it?

Mr. Green, you have no credibility. You are nothing but a partisan hack, and are apparently at least somewhat delusional. Please stop stealing oxygen at the earliest opputunity.

Posted by suboptimal at June 23, 2004 12:21 AM

Hey, Homiller...what the fuck? I'm doing something to make sure we lose a war several thousand miles from my home? Please explain how my rational view of an illegal invasion affects the outcome of a battle...

And as for comments "slipping my mind"...how about a witty repartée at least...I mean, is that the best you can do? At least suboptimal had the good grace to point out a link supporting the possibility of evidence that the man exists. You, on the other hand, did nothing but open your pie-hole, so to speak.

Right-wing hacks...the 9/11 Commission; hand-picked by Shrub to - hopefully for him - exonerate the misAdministration in its efforts to go to war against a hapless country, has found NO CREDIBLE EVIDENCE OF LINKS BETWEEN IRAQ AND AL-QAEDA. So much for Shrub's boys.

"Mission Accomplished" was not simply a reference to the Lincoln's mission; in your revisionist history, maybe; but in fact Shrub claimed the war over. What a jackass he was, and still is...

No...single rounds of weaponry don't exist in solitude; but Saddam could very well have used up all the rest against the Kurds; a practice in which we *KNOW* he had partaken. Any belief that other rounds currently exist, in Iraq or some other nation where Saddam transported them for security and/or profit is mere speculation and conjecture. *Try* to prove me wrong on that. It's been over a year; over 800 US soldiers have died; more are dying daily; and all you can hand me is "we found two or three rounds."

And, yes, I *DO* believe the Germans - along with our NATO allies - were the reason the Soviets did not roll across Europe; but that was clearly *NOT* the issue. What was at issue in this question is the *demise* of the USSR; such demise came from within. The people simply got tired of the corruption and lack of goods and food; particularly the non-Russian Soviets. Like on this continent in the late 18th century; revolt came from within, not without. From outside, it's an invasion - you know...just look at Iraq; we were the invaders...now, there are others, trying to fill the vacuum we're leaving behind; but that's an insurgency...there's no government to topple any more, merely an occupying force.

Dollars to donuts the "Sovereign Iraqi Government" we leave behind on June 30 will all - or most - be dead by July 31. Opposition forces have already killed at least two PMs we've put in place...and Sadr has vowed that his "political party" has been formed specifically to overturn the upcoming Iraqi elections.

No...we're not losing the war over there; we should never have started the goddamned thing!

I have as much credibility as any of you assholes here; I'll stop breathing when I'm ready, and not a second before. As if I'm the only partisan commentor here. Look around; what color is the sky in *your* delusional little world? It's sunny, bright and blue here.

Posted by Jackson Green at June 23, 2004 11:59 AM

Show us your military ID, your enlitsment or discharge papers, your draft card. What unit were you in and where in Viet Nam were you stationed? Who was your commanding officer there? Things that might support the possibility of evidence that the person you say you are exists.

Posted by Neerg Noskcaj at June 23, 2004 01:05 PM

Since you folks are fond of claiming success in Iraq; go have a read:

http://www.alternet.org/waroniraq/19016/

Posted by Jackson Green at June 23, 2004 02:42 PM

Here's a little more to read:

http://www.workingforchange.com/article.cfm?itemid=17169

http://www.workingforchange.com/article.cfm?itemid=17167

Enjoy! If you can...it all just makes me sick.

Posted by Jackson Green at June 23, 2004 02:57 PM

A bit more good reading and a little movie:

http://www.truthuncovered.com/

http://www.truthout.org/

More good stuff to make an honest person sick; what has happened - and continues to happen - should never be.

Posted by Jackson Green at June 23, 2004 03:37 PM

Mr. Green:

Indeed, "suboptimal had the good grace to point out a link supporting the possibility of evidence that the man exists". You ignored him. One for the pie hole.

This the fuck. Nearly all wars are won because one side believes they are beaten and gives up. You are helping defeat the United States in the only way it can be defeated, from within, in the great tradition of John F. Kerry.

Only this time the cost will not be borne by allies thousands of miles away, betrayed into communist servitude for 30 years and counting. This time the enemy will come here. When they do, when it is YOU standing at the brink of a sky scraper with the flames drawing ever nearer and only one way down, don't you DARE try to cast the blame on better men who fought to protect you and your ilk.

Posted by Mike Homiller at June 23, 2004 08:46 PM

Mr. Green,

You provide nothing to back up your statements and when questioned you either ignore the question or rant about your alleged service in "Nam". There have been plenty of instances of anti-war activists at least as far back as the seventies claiming to have served in combat that either had not been in combat, or had not been in the military. For a recent example, please do a google search for Micah Wright. That is why you have no credibility.

Posted by suboptimal at June 23, 2004 11:19 PM

I so some new interesting blog about texas holdem, look at it. http://www.7yardsweb.com

Posted by texas holdem at December 5, 2004 03:54 AM
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